Thursday, December 29, 2011

Religion vs. Gospel





While browsing around Facebook this morning I came across the above illustration, as well as the Spurgeon saying below:


He who never seeks the conversion of another is in imminent danger of being damned himself.Charles Spurgeon.


While it would be true that someone who believes in Christ is commanded and motivated to share him with others, the saying is just so harsh and makes everything fall into the Religion side of the chart.


28 comments:

James Swan said...

Interesting chart, thanks.

The context of the quote can be found here.

"He who never seeks the conversion of another is in imminent danger of being damned himself. I do not believe in any man's salvation who is wrapped up in self, assuredly he is not saved from selfishness. I cannot believe in any man's possessing the Spirit of God who is indifferent to the condition of others, for one of the first fruits of the Spirit is love. Even as flowers at their very first blooming shed their perfume, so do the saved ones in their earliest days of grace desire the good of their fellows. I know that one of my earliest impulses when I first looked to Christ and lost the burden of my sin was to tell everybody around me of the blessings I had received, for I longed to make others as happy as I was. I do fear me that you who never try to win souls lack an essential part of the Christian character. I leave the question with your own consciences."

Having myself grown up an evangelical fundamentalist Arminian, indeed, such a comment can turn into law, I know this firsthand.

On the other hand, Spurgeon's comment reminds me of some of Luther's sermons in which he really blasted his hearers for antinomianism. More on this at some other time. Interesting quote though, thanks.

Brigitte said...

Thanks for expanding on it. It is better in context, as per usual.

It does remind one of the Luther sermon we looked at not that long ago, on 1.Cor. 13, where if a person does not strive to exercise himself in love, he will also soon shrivel up his faith.

And still Spurgeons' single sentence is very harsh, and the kind of thing the lapsed fundamentalists in places like Naked Pastor would jump right on to. Also, the way a pastor pasted this as a Facebook status does not sit well. People think that Christians go around sending everyone to hell.

UncleMeat said...

A note on the "Sabio Lantz"/New Worlds creeps:

That gang has nothing to do with Christianity-- or really religion or philosophy. (they do spam in some pop science things). They use false names/accounts and will troll/stalk sites,pretend to be religious (or liberal, or conservative as needed). Check out "Max's" site ---mostly atheists with some quack-new age material (tho' they're not even "buddhists" in any authentic sense--occultists and scientologists more like). The one regular on NWs, "Byronius" is a drug-dealer, rabid white supremacist, and mail order scam artist. Really it's a little mob they have going, and Lantz appears to be part of it.

Aufwiedersehen.

UncleMeat said...

(cont.)

Note them ranting away on the latest epic thread "Why Yahweh Kills Innocents". Wow-- Sabio vs JHVH. Keep in mind, they are merely techies--unlikely any of them has ever completed a real writing course, much less philosophy, theology, etc. (as with Max's mumbling about Hitchens, who he considers something like his frat-boy hero RA Swinelein (when he was nothing of the sort)). Actually it looks like pro-Romney blog, in essence (the NWs gang has LDS connections).

Pride, the never failing vice of fools.

Gerhardt said...

The column on the left reads like something out of an Islamic "catechism"!

Brigitte said...

Thanks UncleMeat.

James Swan said...

"Uncle Meat" LOL.

I gave away all my Frank Zappa albums 20 years ago. Well, I may have one or two still around somewhere...

Even though Zappa was brilliant, I can rarely get through one of his songs without being offended.

James Swan said...

And still Spurgeons' single sentence is very harsh, and the kind of thing the lapsed fundamentalists in places like Naked Pastor would jump right on to. Also, the way a pastor pasted this as a Facebook status does not sit well. People think that Christians go around sending everyone to hell.

Yes, the law can find its way in, even with out best intentions.

UncleMeat said...

Note the one poster "Gary" on "Sabios" site pretending to be a fundamentalist christian etc (Sabio doesn't seem to mind). In reality's he's a crony of the New Worlds gang--aka Tom B***es-- and a gay musician from Penn. who worked as a low-level tech. for Intel for years until they terminated him-- when they realized he had no degree and no real computing skills ( dyslexic, rumoredly). Somehow he managed to get married (lying his ass off, in fundie-LDS fashion)--and he and his boyfriends Max and Byronius run various scams (including drug dealing, playing ridiculous disco-techno, tax evasion, extortion (one of them will probably start harassing you, Miss B), some queer porno.Allegedly!). As with many phonies in church they've got some nazi preacher/elder calling the shots.

Harsh, but dems the facts (and perhaps you noted some fairly innocuous posts disappearing on Lantz';s site--he doesn't care to have dissent.). Via internet-cloaking people can be about anyone with anonymous s-names.

ciao

Steve Martin said...

We might be in "dust off your sandals..." territory (over there at Sabio's site)

Sam said...

Having recently been excommunicated from both Naked Pastor and Sabio Lantz's blogs (lasted no more than a couple days on Sabio's--months and months with Naked Pastor), it is interesting to me to see some familiar names. I didn't realize there was a common population spread out across this territory of lapsed and unleashed fundamentalism and atheism going at it tooth and nails.
UncleMeat: holy smokes!
Charles Spurgeon: spare me, please. I lack an essential part of the Christian character, no doubt--never the less questioning my own conscience. Thoreau claimed he wouldn't walk across the street to save the world (let alone a soul). Was he being arrogant or humble?

Brigitte said...

Thoreau claimed he wouldn't walk across the street to save the world (let alone a soul). Was he being arrogant or humble?

It has become my thesis that the New England greats are all rebelling against such things as this saying of Spurgeon.

Sam, in terms of crossing the street to save the world or the soul, you know that Thoreau's saying does not reflect you at all, as we have seen that the poetry springs forth uncontrolled and can't be put under the bowl but must be shared. But is it to save souls? It would seem so.

Brigitte said...

I was going to put a smilie after that.

Sam said...

I think Thoreau was being humble. The boys intent on building the Tower of Babble so as to bridge heaven and earth and make the world a better place? Now that's arrogance. And typical.

Brigitte said...

I don't quite get how this goes with being humble or not humble.

Brigitte said...

Tower of Babel, is this how Thoreou means it?

Sam said...

Is it possible "humility" might look like "arrogance" in the common sense? I don't know what Thoreau had in mind with his statement. Walden is a non-stop critique of the mass of myn--and some find him arrogant. I imagine the crew rising each morning to build the Tower of Babel might have considered themselves humble workers and do-gooders: saving the world.Their arrogance inconceivable to them, even after their work was confounded and confused.

Brigitte said...

It's is all about whether there is a command or not, a word or not, a revelation or not. What did God really say. Is there a mission or is it your own only. Is there a call? Is there vocation? Outside of your own preference, desire, ego.

Sam said...

That's the question of questions, isn't it? "Speak Lord, for thy servant heareth!" says the young Samuel after some advice. Obedience. Oyez!Oyez! (Won't it look like arrogance to the Goodies?)

UncleMeat said...

Sifting Reality

Now the New Worlds creepos are mumbling about "gnosticism" on John Barron's pseudo-christian site.

Perhaps have your preacher/priest (assuming they can be trusted) take a look at these sick, twisted illiterates and their 10th grade attempts at philosophy. I humbly suggest...that is Shaitan (ie, Barron, Sabio, New Worlds/Max).

Happy New years, B.

UncleMeat said...

(and another mistake on Max McNada's part: the gnostics were mystics all the way, and held to the miraculous view of JC and the gospels. That was their exact claim--that Christ was a superman of sorts. The McYokel doesn't even get his heresy correct (and obviously has never read a page of Hume in his life).

Brigitte said...

Obedience. Oyez!Oyez! (Won't it look like arrogance to the Goodies?)

It does not matter any more "what it looks like". And "obedience" you can make look like slavery (an image Paul did employ; he is a "slave" of Christ, "servus"). But also permssion and sending and keeping. This is God's word. It's yours to have, keep and share. You did not invent it yourself.

You use your individuality and creativity, too, like we said, but within this keeping.

Brigitte said...

UncleMeat, at this point, I really don't know what to say about any of what you write about.

UncleMeat said...

It's cool. B. Delete if you want to. Just pointing out the secular AND hypocritical religious devils at work--(ie, check the link). At least Hitchens had a certain Jeffersonian integrity to him (at times), unlike the ...Meyer Lanskys now chanting his name.

Happy New Year.

U.M.

Brigitte said...

Happy New Year, U.M.!

Sam said...

Saecular and hypocritical on one hand, righteous and integral on the other hand. That's me, UncleMeat: schizoid and trying to make virtue of it.
And I didn't invent myself or the word, Brigitte. Of course not. Malcomb-in-the-muddle: making the most of what comes to me. How could it be otherwise?

Brigitte said...

It's not secular vs. righteous or religious.

The picture are the top relates to this. There are not a certain set of "religious" things that we do to be "righteous".

But both the "secular" callings and the "religious" vocations have boundaries. So the split makes even less sense.

John B said...

Uncle Meat had begun to post on my blog (Sifting Reality)a couple weeks ago. I had to ban him because he began to be profane and harass other commenters, calling them drug addicts and Jew lovers.

He posted unter the name 010101010 and 8.

But, pseudo-Christian is not an accurate description of my site. Take it for what you will and with a grain of salt. I gather he will quickly turn on you.